Lindsay chats with Amalia about the importance of having harmony in all the roles she plays in her life, from professional to personal. When all this is in alignment, that’s when she can really achieve fulfillment and success and have her own whole damn pie.
Lindsay Torrico left an incredibly successful career in community development, grassroots mobilization, and public policy, advocating on the Hill in DC when she became disillusioned with the policy process and the politics. Now, as Senior VP of Bank Community Engagement at American Bankers Association & Executive Director of ABA Foundation she helps banks to put community at the front of their corporate social responsibility strategies. And she couldn’t be happier. The lesson she’s maintained through it all is one her grandmother taught her — to ensure she has harmony in all the roles she plays in her life, from professional to personal. Lindsay recognizes when all this is in alignment, that’s when she can really achieve fulfillment and success and have her own whole damn pie. Hit play for the full story. If you enjoy listening, be sure to follow us so you're the first to know when we add new episodes. While you're there, please leave us a review — we’d really appreciate it.
Lindsay Torrico: When I can line up who I am personally and my values with who I am with my work hat on, that is where I can really achieve fulfillment and success.
Amalia Martino: Welcome to The Whole Damn Pie. Today I'm speaking with Lindsay Tirico, who has had an extremely successful career in community development, grassroots mobilization, and public policy, advocating on the Hill in DC for many years. Anyone who's ever worked at a non profit knows it's a grind. It's called political gridlock for a reason.
There's always a lot of work to be done and not enough people, money, or resources to do it. You're pushing a boulder uphill for incremental change. It is hard work. Lindsay and I talk about the professional wall she eventually hit, which led her to a very unexpected career shift. One that she's loving today.
She's creating positive change in her community and taking care of herself and her family. And that balance is the key to her professional success and happiness in life. Sometimes the roadblocks lead to really interesting new paths.
Lindsay Torrico: It has been a beautiful and an unexpected journey. If you had told me that I'd be working in banking right now, I would not believe you. I did not have this on my vision board. It has been a confluence of events that have brought me here and really It's centered on the fact that I was passionate about community and I wanted to be an advocate for communities in need. And for 15 years, I advocated at nonprofits on Capitol Hill in that work. And then I just got to a point where I was disillusioned. I was disillusioned by the policy process, by the politics. And so after many years of prayer and reflection, I had my own, pandemic existential moment, and I left my job, and I recognize that my passion and my purpose is in empowering communities and helping companies and organizations move put community front and center. And that's what brought me to this role in banking, where I work with banks all across the country and helping them to put community at the front of their business strategies, their corporate social responsibility strategies. And that has been really meaningful to see all of that come to fruition.
So I'm just in all of all of the moments throughout that journey that took me to where I am today.It's just a beautiful culmination of, of lots of different random things, right? A hodgepodge of random things that now make sense in a really meaningful way.
Amalia Martino: Where do you think that comes from?
Like, has that just always been in you when you look back at like, little Lindsay? Are you like that?
Lindsay Torrico: I think it started with my grandmother. You know, I was raised primarily by my grandmother. She was a strong figure in my life. She was an English teacher. Um, she was a woman of faith, and she had a very clear sense of who she was and who she wanted to be in the world, and she told me that there are endless possibilities for you. I think if she had been born in a different time, in a different era, she would have been a governor or, you know, someone of tremendous wealth. But she had a number of barriers as a woman of color in this country. And so she really invested in me and she poured into me. And seeing the endless possibilities that I had before me, I knew that it had to be grounded in purpose.
I wasn't sure what that looked like.
Amalia Martino: Right.
Lindsay Torrico: But I knew that purpose and giving to community had to be part of it. And that was really, I think, my compass for, for getting me where I am today.
Amalia Martino: So with that fuel that you had from a young age to then being in these positions where you're seeing how things are done, how has that really impacted your perspective and your path to where you are now?
Lindsay Torrico: I think the biggest impact for me has been making sure that I have harmony in my personal, my professional, and all of the different roles that I play in my life. I am a mother, I am a wife, I am a person of faith, I am, you know, deeply committed to my church and my community. I am also an advocate for communities, and I am someone working now in the banking industry to provide industry leaders with guidance and resources to support the communities they serve.
And so I think in all of those roles, I've recognized that when I can line up who I am personally, my values with who I am, with my work hat on, that is where I can really achieve fulfillment and success. And not to say it's Perfection.
Amalia Martino: Right, right.
And I think the challenge for so many of us as women and as mothers is that we have to recognize that we're not going to be perfect in all of those things and everything's not going to go the way we expect on a daily basis, but we can strive for that. And that's really what I hope to gain is that sort of harmony and that consistency in who I am and how I show up in all of those different roles.
Amalia Martino: You said you're a mother. How many children do you have?
Lindsay Torrico: I have two children. My son is Gabriel. He's six and my daughter is Naomi. Naomi, she's two and a half.
Amalia Martino: Oh, wow!
Very feisty two and a half. It's so funny because I always wanted a sassy little girl. And then I have it and it's a whole different story. I mean the diva tendencies are in full effect.
Amalia Martino: I have to say I also have a sassy. She is not two and a half. She just turned 22 actually. You'll hear me say this thing a lot. She's a baby adult. I call her a baby adult because she also gave me a run for my money, right? Like I was like, I want a strong woman. I'm going to raise her to be strong. And then you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Lindsay Torrico: Exactly.
Amalia Martino: But not right here, right now. That is in the future.
Lindsay Torrico: Exactly.
Amalia Martino: Right. Yes. We are practicing these things, but it doesn't apply in the house to your mother. No, no. Yes, I know. Well, call me during the teenage years.
Lindsay Torrico: Yes, please. I'm gonna need help, girl. I'm gonna be reaching out because I'm gonna need a lifeline.
Amalia Martino: I'm here for you. That was tough, but you know you get on the other side.
That's one part of life that we actually don't talk about a lot is like when your children get to a certain age and you're like navigating them as young adults and they're coming into their power and where you show up as a parent, as a mom, and how you have to let go. But also hold on and like set them free, but also you're terrified. It's like, it's a whole other, you're not there yet, so I don't want to scare you. You're only at two, two and six. Those are good ages. But you know, when you're there, I'm here for you. Cause I would have loved a support group. Tell me more about the role that faith plays in your parenting.
Lindsay Torrico: In the last year, we started going to a church and it has changed the direction of our family in a beautiful way because instead of each of us being who we are as individuals, which we are, we build on that and we love that, we're all striving to be better together.
Amalia Martino: Oh, I love that.
Lindsay Torrico: Even myself. My son, who had a birthday party the other day asked his friends, do you know God?
Amalia Martino: Oh, wow.
Lindsay Torrico: And it, and it gave me such a conviction because this child, understand that there's a higher power and there's a higher purpose for who he is. So that's just been beautiful to see my family as we grow in our faith and our love for each other. And I love it. I love those moments where we can really build those memories together as a family.
Amalia Martino: And it sounds like it's a really supportive place for you to be.
Lindsay Torrico: It is.
Amalia Martino: Oh, that's amazing. That is great. Let's talk about the work that you do now, because you're at the American Bankers Association, which honestly I had never heard of before.
Lindsay Torrico: Well, I had never heard of it before either before I took this role. So that is not surprising at all, but they are the largest financial trade in the country.
Amalia Martino: Ohh.
Lindsay Torrico: All of the banks in the country, many of them are members of the American Bankers Association and their role is to advocate for banks of all sizes. My role is to help them in their work with community, and so that really covers two big facets of work. One is helping them drive economic development, community development. So that's everything from financial literacy to housing. And then the other piece is around community engagement, and how do they have authentic relationships with their community. And that really is my passion. I mean, this is my work around how do we help provide people with the resources and the guidance to really meet people where they are, to meet their community where they are? Because every community is different, but that is the work that I do at at the ABA. And it's really powerful because you see the potential with banks being such a critical economic driver in their community.
Amalia Martino: Yeah.
Lindsay Torrico: If they have the skills and the knowledge and the relationships to support their community's economic growth, that can be transformational. And so that's the work that I do. And that's what I love to do every day.
Amalia Martino: What are some of the biggest barriers or blocks that come up in really achieving that true community engagement for them to show up in a way that's going to empower a community? What are the biggest barriers that you're seeing?
Lindsay Torrico: I think all banks want to serve their communities. Every single bank I talk to is passionate about serving their community. It's the how you do that is the challenge. And so that is one of the core challenges that I work to overcome in my role is to provide the how to. One of the things that we're working on is a community conversation guide.
Amalia Martino: Okay.
Lindsay Torrico: Where we equip every banker in the country with a guide on how do you have positive and productive conversations with your community members and have discussions about how do you address the economic challenges within your communities so that people, again, are empowered and have the resources to do this work locally in their communities.
Amalia Martino: If you stop and think about it, you rely on financial institutions every single day. Direct deposit of your paycheck. Electronically sending a friend payments for something they bought. Tapping your phone to buy your morning coffee. All of this is possible because of banks, and it's all cashless. So even if you have your Emergency 20 with you, you might not be able to use it if everyone's going cashless. And that's a real problem if you don't have equitable access to banking services. So, is access to banking part of the work that you do there?
Lindsay Torrico: Absolutely. Access to banking is certainly part of my portfolio and a lot of my work is figuring out how do we reach the underbanked and the unbanked populations in this country. It may be surprising for most people to know that there are a lot of people in this country that don't have a bank account. For instance, we discovered that there were over 250,000 veterans that did not have a bank account, so they could not access their VA benefits.
Amalia Martino: Oh, wow. Why?
Lindsay Torrico: It is an issue that the VA, the Department of Veterans Affairs, has been dealing with for some time. And it's just a matter of how do we get this money that veterans deserve into their hands?
Amalia Martino: Right. Yeah.
Into their pocketbooks. So, we have been working to find a solution. We're working with an organization called AMPA, where we created a financial marketplace for banks to sign on
Amalia Martino: Wow
Lindsay Torrico: And every veteran on the country can go on and pick a bank that they want to bank with and get access to their benefits. It’s as simple as that.
Amalia Martino: Wow
Lindsay Torrico: But, that one issue has huge implications for people's economic ability.
Amalia Martino: Right. This makes me reflect on my own experiences with money that have shaped my financial literacy. I'm a rather educated business owner and I still have gaps in my financial knowledge. I'm still learning about credit and banking and access to capital and building generational wealth. I mean, you name it. And when I think back on my childhood. We were risk averse because one bad decision could have catastrophic consequences. This also led to a scarcity mindset, which is something I'm still unlearning. Growing up, I only learned about earning money and saving money, but that is such a small piece of the banking industry.
Lindsay Torrico: People don't recognize the financial literacy gap in this country. It is deep and it is large, and we need to do a better job in our schools and our communities and our families to help people understand just the basics of financial literacy. The experience you had is a very common experience. So many people are dealing with financial trauma. We hosted a webinar on this topic a few months ago the number of people that are dealing with some sort of negative perception about money and what does that mean for their lives and their ability to build wealth for themselves and their family and is the impact is far reaching.
Amalia Martino: Yeah.
Lindsay Torrico: So there's a lot of work that needs to be done and that's part of my mission is to make sure that more people have the education so that they can at a minimum, get a bank account and know how to build wealth and maybe buy a house one day. We really need to make sure that that's within reach for every American.
Amalia Martino: Yeah. I mean, that's the American dream, right? But it seems more and more elusive for people, and we've seen kind of the gap between the average income and the average cost of a house has widened enormously over the two decades. And, you know, I can even look here in Seattle and think the cost of living is so ridiculous here, and not just here, in many places. And, you know, as a business owner, I'm trying to make sure that our salaries are keeping up with that growth and it's just overwhelming. But how do we empower more people in our own communities to make sure that they're set up for that American dream?
Lindsay Torrico: That is the question.
Amalia Martino: I know. We ask small questions on this podcast.
Lindsay Torrico: No, I love it. It's exactly what keeps me up at night is how do we make sure that that is within reach for everyone. I think financial literacy is part of it but it also has to be coupled with opportunities that allow people to get on track to financial literacy stability. So it's a combination of those things. It starts, I think, in our own families and the role that we can play as parents to build positive associations and positive financial habits within our families. So I will say that's one tangible thing that we can do. But I think it's also looking for those opportunities that are going to lift up our communities.
Amalia Martino: Okay.
Lindsay Torrico: So we know homeownership is a key driver for economic stability. You know, how do we help more people get educated so that they understand what is the housing process and what does it mean to have a home and what does it mean to keep a home?
Amalia Martino: Yeah.
Lindsay Torrico: Those two pieces are critical. That's why I'm working really closely with banks to see how they can invest in communities, that they can understand what the financial challenges are within their communities and help solve some of these challenges along with their community members.
Amalia Martino: I love it. Well, we're in this time, I feel like a lot of us are looking out in the future, but maybe not so far in the future past this election cycle, right? And a lot of nervousness, instability, people moving, people, I don't know, just getting, just nervous. I don't know if everybody else feels this. I feel this when working with our clients, just a sense of nerves.
Lindsay Torrico: This is something that every industry is dealing with. The World Economic Forum hosted their big event a few months ago and the theme for that event was trust, because they recognize if consumers. If people in communities don't have trust in institutions, there are financial implications for that. So, trust is something I'm really focused on for our banks. And again, it's helping them have the right resources and the guidance to be able to build trust and do it in a way that's authentic, that's sincere where we're leading with empathy and we're being transparent with our communities.
Amalia Martino: Yes. And how do you in your role right now.. how do you track the impact of the work that the banks are doing?
Lindsay Torrico: I'll tell you, that is one of the other things that keeps me up at night because measuring social impact has got to be one of the hardest things.
Amalia Martino: It's true.
Lindsay Torrico: In most important ways that we track impact is to find out how many of our banks are doing this work. And so we have a new goal to help 5 million people get on the road to prosperity, to economic mobility in the next three years. And we've asked banks to sign on and join us. And that has been really a game changer for us because as we're doing this work, I've determined that often our banks are focused on the outputs and not the outcomes.
Amalia Martino: Oh.
Lindsay Torrico: And it's really hard to track the outcomes when you're just getting a list of number of volunteer hours or number of programs you have invested in. And so we're starting with this goal. We're inviting banks all across the country to join us and to let us know how many people are you helping with financial and economic success. And so far we have 850 banks that have signed on to this goal.
Amalia Martino: That's great.
Lindsay Torrico: Collectively they have reached 1. 3 million people.
Amalia Martino: Wow.
Lindsay Torrico: And each of those people, they're providing financial coaching, housing education, lending services, a whole host of services. So, we're tracking those resources, but that is one way we're trying to track that success. But we need to do more. We need to do more.
Amalia Martino: It seems like you are achieving such big things and such important things, but like, what is your typical day look like?
Lindsay Torrico: I'll spend, I would say. 90 percent of my day in back-to-back meetings where I'm talking with a banker about a new program that they want to launch around housing, and they want to get my input on what is the right thing of mix of products and services they want to include in that program. I also spend a good part of my day at events because there's no better way to show up for community than actually showing up at community events.
Amalia Martino: Yeah.
Lindsay Torrico: And then trying to get in the occasional lunch with a friend or coffee with a friend. I try to mix in those moments of fun and just rest where I can and just connection with people. So it's not just a full day of zoom meetings.
Amalia Martino: Yes.
Lindsay Torrico: Because we all know that can be exhausting, but it's that finding that right mix so that I feel like the day is exciting and fulfilling and productive.
Amalia Martino: I just want to note that I love that you mix in coffee with a friend or rest or reflection in your day because I think that a lot of us miss that and it makes things harder.. it's like I have to literally put time in my calendar because things will just get scheduled for me and then I lose control and I get distracted and it knocks me off my game.
Lindsay Torrico: It's also about knowing yourself and how you work. I have a three day brain delay. So if I talk to you..
Amalia Martino: I talked to you
Lindsay Torrico: So, if I talk to you yesterday, it's going to take me a couple of days to just like you said, process and determine what are the right next steps and actions to move the work forward. So every three days, I need to build in focus time, it’s an hour or sometimes it’s just an half an hour but I need to build in that time to process and to reflect and to recalibrate what am I doing and what are my action items and yeah I think it’s about knowing about yourself and being intentional about how to build in that time and you’ve got to prioritize it or it won’t happen.
Amalia Martino: Now here's that personal and professional balance ethos that Lindsay is so passionate about. We've spoken about her family, faith, work, and the last puzzle piece is community. She works with a few different organizations and invests her time in ways that applies to her unique skill set.
Lindsay Torrico: Convergence has been an amazing opportunity for me to put into action my own belief system that we can come together as human beings. So what they do is host dialogues across the country on really intractable political issues.
Amalia Martino: Wow.
Lindsay Torrico: And they bring together a diverse set of people across the political spectrum to try to address the challenges and come up with solutions. And I joined one of their dialogues on a project they coordinated on the budget process. If you've heard the term government shutdown before, which we all do every couple of months because Congress can't pass a budget. They wanted to bring together a diverse set of policy leaders to help address that and come up with a long-term solution for addressing some of the gridlock that's happening in Washington. And it was a phenomenal process to do a lot of the things that I've talked about in this podcast, build human connection, lead with empathy. And ultimately, we were able to come up with a list of recommendations. that we published and we were able to present to members of Congress.
Amalia Martino: Wow.
Lindsay Torrico: What they do with that, that’s on them
Amalia Martino: Yeah. Right.
Lindsay Torrico:. But this is the process and this is the model that they've created and they're doing this on a whole host of issues. So I'm really passionate about the work that they're doing.
Amalia Martino: Wow. And so as a board member, you are kind of guiding much of their governance and work across the country.
Lindsay Torrico: That's right. I'm being a thought partner with them on how do we scale this model nationally. And I also serve on their fundraising committee. So that also means helping to look for pots of money where we can bring in new funders to support this work.
Amalia Martino: That's pretty amazing. I don't know how you have all this time, because that's not your only board.
Lindsay Torrico: No, that is not! That is not. And my other board is the Jumpstart Coalition. And they are an important organization that drives change. It's financial literacy for younger adults and young Americans. And they do really great projects around helping teachers to do financial literacy courses and presentations in the classroom. They also help community organizations to learn about what are the basics of financial literacy. They provide awards to financial literacy advocates all across the country. And the main message is we need to have more financial literacy programs in our schools. This needs to be part of the curriculum of our young people. And so that's really their message. And that's what I hope to promote.
Amalia Martino: I remember my daughter took some, she had one teacher who was very passionate about this. She was really lucky and they, she taught a whole day on credit cards and why you shouldn't get them basically. I mean, it was the start of a conversation, right? So we know that you can use credit in a way to, if you use it right, you can use it in a way to build your financial house. But as a, you know, 15 or 16 year old, I thought it was a good lesson to talk about what the difference between. Credit and bank accounts were and I don't know if that happens. I don't know. I don't know.
Lindsay Torrico: I don't think, I don't think it is. I think it happens in pockets and I don't think it's happening enough the communities that really need it.
Amalia Martino: Yeah.
Lindsay Torrico: And so that's one of the problems. areas of focus for me is how do we help more people have access to that financial literacy all across this country.
Amalia Martino: Yeah. So maybe for people who just are, you know, community members who want to start to get more educated on financial literacy or how they can work with their bank or which bank they should bank at, what would be your advice? Like, where do you even start if you're just curious?
Lindsay Torrico: I would start with your bank, if you have a bank, because your bank probably has resources and presentations and guidance on financial literacy that you might not already know about. Reach out to them, ask for the community development or the financial education staffer at the bank.
Amalia Martino: Okay, hold on. So wait, are you saying that each bank has a person?
Lindsay Torrico: Yes.
Amalia Martino: Who this is their job?
Lindsay Torrico: Yes, absolutely.
Amalia Martino: Okay. Tell me about that person.
Lindsay Torrico: So it's different at every bank, and it also depends on is it, is it a large bank, is it a small bank community bank, is it a regional bank? So the structure and who that person is might be different.
Amalia Martino: Okay.
Lindsay Torrico: But there is somebody at that bank whose role it is, who's dedicated to financial education and community engagement.
Amalia Martino: Okay. And there's someone on staff.
Lindsay Torrico: Absolutely.
Amalia Martino: Who would love to talk to me.
Lindsay Torrico: And they would love to talk to you. Let me tell you, they would love to talk to you and, and, and work with you and find out what, what they can do to help you.So that is universal at every bank. There's somebody there.
Amalia Martino: Okay. That's some place to start. I feel like, right? It takes two for the conversation. So banks can meet us and we can also walk in the door and ask for what we want and need.
Lindsay Torrico: A hundred percent.
Amalia Martino: This is a new thing for me, generational wealth building. I, I bought my house, my first house when I was in my late 40s, right? So, because I also do a lot of work in community, for community, this tension that I sometimes feel about.. Wealth building is great and I should be taking care of myself, but I shouldn't be too successful or too outwardly looking like I have control over my money or nice things because of the work that I am doing in community and because I am a person of color, I want to be keep, I want to be humble. You have to still be humble, but you still have to be responsible and successful. So I'm wondering if you personally have ever felt that, or if you hear that in the air, or maybe this is just my own craziness, but I don't think it is.
Lindsay Torrico: I have certainly heard those two conflicting messages. One is, as a woman of color, you have to give back. You have to think of your community first. You have to invest in the community you serve. You have to go and strive and be the best and achieve for yourself. Personally, I feel like you know, they tell you on the airplane, you got to put your oxygen mask on first before you help somebody else. That's how I feel. You have to take care of yourself and make sure that you're good. And I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive. You can take care of yourself, make sure you're good and set aside an amount that you think makes sense for you, for your community, for your church, for your, you know, the different organizations that you're part of. I think that's a both and, and I think that we shouldn't be so hard on ourselves.
Amalia Martino: Yeah.
Lindsay Torrico: I think those messages it's really, it's discouraging for a lot of women of color to hear all of the things that you have to do to be considered in the community of the community and also achieving for yourself. I think we gotta encourage people to do both, and I think we have to think beyond those boxes.
Amalia Martino: I took so much from this conversation. For Lindsay, the whole damn pie is about creating harmony between the personal and the professional. As I say all the time, we are not looking for perfection. Perfection doesn't live here. The balance will be different every day. But this is what we're working towards. And you gotta put in the work.